lesleymeredith asked: Hey Ramses... so, I haz a question. Saw your post about taking verses out of context, and I totally agree that they can be misused, some may even use that particular one for "prosperity gospel" purposes, but, where should one draw the line between "taken out of context" and "embracing God's promises"?

 

“This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: “Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.” Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: “Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have.  They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them,” declares the LORD.  This is what the LORD says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.  For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.  Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.  You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.  I will be found by you,” declares the LORD, “and will bring you back from captivity.  I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the LORD, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.” - Jeremiah 29:4-14 

What troubles me is that when people read Jeremiah 29:11 they’ll come to the conclusion that:
1. God desires that all his children would live financially prosperous lives.

2. God’s plan for their lives involves no harm or danger.

3. God wants to grant them the future they desire and not necessarily the future He desires.  

I understand the real need for hope, but I don’t want to see Christians duped into accepting a false or superficial hope. Jeremiah 29 *needs* to be read with an understanding of the surrounding text, as well as Jeremiah 28.

For the exiles in Babylon, “hope and future” could mean only one thing–returning home. The prophet Hananiah told them that God would deliver them in two years, and that they would be able to replant in Judah. Sounds great! Then Jeremiah comes in, calls Hananiah a dirty rotten scoundrel, predicts his death, and sets the exiles straight. They wouldn’t return in two years, but more like 70: “Don’t start packing your bags yet. In fact, settle in for the long haul. Im sorry, but you’re going to die here in Babylon. Don’t believe anyone who tells you otherwise. You’ll never see Judah again. There’s good news, though–God still has a very good plan for Judah. And while you won’t see the fruit of that yourself, have hope, because God hasn’t given up on His people. Your grandchildren will be able to build homes and plant crops and drink the wine of their own vines back home in Judah.”

The people that this promise was originally made to died in their bondage. In exile. As refugees. But God still had a plan for His people (plural) and for their descendants. That’s *really* different than believing that God’s plan for your individual life only involves prosperity and no harm. Try telling that to the Christians in Somalia who are burying their children this week because of the record-breaking famine there. Or to thousands upon thousands of martyrs who have forsaken their lives for the sake of the Gospel. Or to John, Paul, or Peter. I fear that a shallow understanding of God’s promise in Jeremiah 29:11 won’t hold up against the storms of life.

To answer your question, “Where should one draw the line between ‘taken out of context’ and ‘embracing God’s promises?”

I believe that before one can claim a passage of scripture as a promise from God, they should able to find that same promise echoed through scripture all the way into the new covenant. There should be some type of cohesivness to the promises proclaimed by Christ to those under the Law of Christ.

Again, what troubles me is that many Christians take Jeremiah 29:11 as a “lovey-dubby-butterflies-in-my-tummy” promise, and invitation into a comfortable, climate-controlled life, when in fact, what Jesus taught & what we find in the early church was the total opposite. 

John 15:18-21

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you… If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you… because they do not know Him who sent Me.”

John 16:1-4

“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.”

Matthew 5:10-12

“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven….” 

Romans 8:16-18

“The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”

Romans 8:35-39

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? …Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

2 Corinthians 4:7-11

“But we have this treasure in earthen vessels,  that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.”

2 Corinthians 12:9-10

“And He said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.’ Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”

Acts 5:40-42

“They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. The apostles left… rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.”

 Thessalonians 1:3-6

“… we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer….”

2 Timothy 2:10-12

“Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him.

If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.

If we deny Him, He also will deny us.”

How does any of that line up with the current, contemporary, christian view of Jeremiah 29:11?

Personally, I don’t want to live a safe & comfortable life. I don’t care if I prosper or don’t. I don’t care if God’s will totally decimates any plans or hopes I had for my future. The one thing I desire is that Christ would exalted among the nations and if that requires of me to live a life in poverty, alongside the broken, & die a martyrs death, then so be it (And of course, that is my personal conviction)

My point is that we should really consider scripture as a whole and the messages being conveyed throughout all of scripture before we arrive at any conclusions about individual promises.

I could keep rambling on, but I’ll just stop here :)
I hope that answered your question, Lesley, or at least explained my views a bit more clearly.

Stay blessed, sister!